97:10:05 09:05 Lonesome Sparrow
97:10:05 02:12   Anthony Fappiano
97:10:05 13:18   Jefrey Furlong
97:10:05 15:48   Louis Karol
97:10:05 20:35   MacKechnie
97:10:06 21:34     nate
97:10:10 17:37       Dave Palmer
97:10:10 21:58         catherine yronwode
97:10:14 06:46           jgerdes
97:10:09 13:03     C. F.
97:10:07 18:11   Alan Fraser
97:10:07 21:45     catherine yronwode
97:10:10 23:12     Brian Ross
97:10:08 18:58 Lonesome Sparrow

From: lvdm@xs4all.nl (Lonesome Sparrow)
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Subject: Words of "Don't think twice, it's all right"
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 1997 09:05:09 GMT

On the album "The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan" the song "Don't think twice,
it's all right" begins thus:

Well, it ain't no use to sit and wonder why babe
Ifn you don't know by now

"Ifn" is no typing error, but my phonetic transcript of what I hear. I
don't know what is actually sung here. Maybe it's "If-a", but that
doesn't have the n sound which I hear. Maybe it's "Even" peculiarly
pronounced. Or maybe it's something else. Your thoughts please, dear
rmd'ers.


From: "Anthony Fappiano" 
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Subject: Re: Words of "Don't think twice, it's all right"
Date: 5 Oct 1997 02:12:02 GMT

Probly just Dylan's creative use of language...

Lonesome Sparrow  wrote in article
<34369a18.5511229@news.xs4all.nl>...
> On the album "The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan" the song "Don't think twice,
> it's all right" begins thus:
> 
> Well, it ain't no use to sit and wonder why babe
> Ifn you don't know by now
> 
> "Ifn" is no typing error, but my phonetic transcript of what I hear. I
> don't know what is actually sung here. Maybe it's "If-a", but that
> doesn't have the n sound which I hear. Maybe it's "Even" peculiarly
> pronounced. Or maybe it's something else. Your thoughts please, dear
> rmd'ers.
> 


From: "Jefrey Furlong" 
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Subject: Re: Words of "Don't think twice, it's all right"
Date: 5 Oct 1997 13:18:27 GMT

It is IF'N just like you hear it. It's Bob's Good
'ole-downhome-hillbilly-countryboy speak.

JMF


From: Louis Karol
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Subject: Re: Words of "Don't think twice, it's all right"
Date: 5 Oct 1997 08:48:37 -0700

In article <34369a18.5511229@news.xs4all.nl>, lvdm@xs4all.nl says...
>
>On the album "The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan" the song "Don't think twice,
>it's all right" begins thus:
>
>Well, it ain't no use to sit and wonder why babe
>Ifn you don't know by now
>
>"Ifn" is no typing error, but my phonetic transcript of what I hear. I
>don't know what is actually sung here. Maybe it's "If-a", but that
>doesn't have the n sound which I hear. Maybe it's "Even" peculiarly
>pronounced. Or maybe it's something else. Your thoughts please, dear
>rmd'ers.

Oh, Mr. Twice!  Paging Mr. Twice!


From: mackechnie@aol.com (MacKechnie)
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Subject: Re: Words of "Don't think twice, it's all right"
Date: 5 Oct 1997 20:35:06 GMT

>"Ifn" is no typing error, but my phonetic transcript of what I hear. I
>don't know what is actually sung here. Maybe it's "If-a", but that
>doesn't have the n sound which I hear. Maybe it's "Even" peculiarly
>pronounced. 

Dear Lonesome,

     It's definitely "if'n"---just what you think you hear.  As a resident of
 the Netherlands, you are not likely to have come across this uniquely American
 colloquialism.  "If'n" is a simple rendition of "If" by the less educated
 frontiersmen of wild west days long past.  It's not currently in use here
 (except in the dark recesses of "hollers" in the inaccesible reaches of
 Appalachia).  

                               Russ


From: nates@ll.mit.edu (nate)
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Subject: Re: Words of "Don't think twice, it's all right"
Date: 6 Oct 1997 21:34:01 GMT

In article <19971005203501.QAA01552@ladder02.news.aol.com>, mackechnie@aol.com 
says...

> colloquialism.  "If'n" is a simple rendition of "If" by the less educated
> frontiersmen of wild west days long past.

>                               Russ

 is "if'n" a contraction of "iffing" as in

  "iffing you dont know by now" meaning the act of making the
 statement "you dont know by now" an argument of an IF statement.

       "hey, dont ask why"
       "let's put that into an if statement -"
       "- you mean, let's IF it?"
       "...uh, yeah, let's IF that clause, then we can proceed"

 or is it a contraction of "if then" as in

  "if, then, you dont know by now" meaning not much more than a
  a naked IF used there as in "if you dont know by now", but sort
  of adding another layer of qualifiers around the statement "it
  aint no use to sit an' wonder why".

  not as much fun, if'n you ask me.


- nate


From: Alan Fraser 
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Subject: Re: Words of "Don't think twice, it's all right"
Date: 7 Oct 1997 11:11:31 -0700

In article , lvdm@xs4all.nl says...
>
>On the album "The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan" the song "Don't think twice,
>it's all right" begins thus:
>
>Well, it ain't no use to sit and wonder why babe
>Ifn you don't know by now
>
>"Ifn" is no typing error, but my phonetic transcript of what I hear. I
>don't know what is actually sung here. Maybe it's "If-a", but that
>doesn't have the n sound which I hear. Maybe it's "Even" peculiarly
>pronounced. Or maybe it's something else. Your thoughts please, dear
>rmd'ers.

The printed lyrics are:

An' it ain't no use to sit and wonder why, babe
If you don't know by now

I agree Bob sings "Ifn". I've always assumed this to be an American vernacular
usage. No doubt those from that part of the world will explain.

Alan


From: catherine yronwode 
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Subject: Re: Words of "Don't think twice, it's all right"
Date: Tue, 07 Oct 1997 13:45:51 -0800

Alan Fraser wrote:
> 
> In article , lvdm@xs4all.nl says...
> >
> >On the album "The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan" the song "Don't think 
> >twice, it's all right" begins thus:
> >
> >Well, it ain't no use to sit and wonder why babe
> >Ifn you don't know by now
> >
> >"Ifn" is no typing error, but my phonetic transcript of what I hear. 
> >I don't know what is actually sung here. Maybe it's "If-a", but that
> >doesn't have the n sound which I hear. Maybe it's "Even" peculiarly
> >pronounced. Or maybe it's something else. Your thoughts please, dear
> >rmd'ers.
> 
> The printed lyrics are:
> 
> An' it ain't no use to sit and wonder why, babe
> If you don't know by now
> 
> I agree Bob sings "Ifn". I've always assumed this to be an American 
> vernacular usage. No doubt those from that part of the world will 
> explain.

Yep. It's American vernacular. "If'n" is just...well, just how that
word's pronounced a lot of the time. Makes it sound more, like, you
know, *conditional*, kinda, somehow. 

Er sumthin'. 
 
catherine yronwode (who truly had never noticed that non-American
English speakers DON'T say "if'n" until y'all pointed it out.)


From: lvdm@xs4all.nl (Lonesome Sparrow)
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Subject: Re: Words of "Don't think twice, it's all right"
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 18:58:19 GMT

Thanks to you, dear rmd'ers, I now know for sure that Dylan sings

If'n you don't know by now

and why he does so.
Nice to see that not only me has learned something from this thread.
One more thing on this subject that might interest you: I have a
performance by Joan Baez of this song (on tape, I think it comes from
one of her "In Concert" albums) in which she also sings "If'n you
don't know by now".


Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 09:03:04 -0400
From: "C. F." 
Subject: Re: Words of "Don't think twice, it's all right"

In a message dated 97-10-07 23:31:33 EDT, you write:

<< It's not currently in use here
  (except in the dark recesses of "hollers" in the inaccesible reaches of
  Appalachia).
  >>

If'n ya search hard enuf, you can hear it down here in the South sometimes
among some older folks.

Peace
Mystic


Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
From: arxt@midway.uchicago.edu (Dave Palmer)
Subject: Re: Words of "Don't think twice, it's all right"
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 17:37:19 GMT

If'n is actually a mathematical term, "if and only if." It's an
exclusive "if".  The statement follows the form (not p) if and only if
(not q), that is: there ain't no use to sit and wonder why, babe,
if [a]n[d only if] you don't know by now.  Therefore, if you DO know
by now, then there IS a use to sit and wonder why.  That may sound
self-contradictory but actually all Bob is trying to say is that it
is that the girl shouldn't waste her time trying to analyze the
situation unless she already knows all the facts and motives
involved.  After all, KNOWING "why?" allows one to ask "why?" again in
an ever broader sense.  If you don't know what I mean go talk to a
three year old. (note: INCLUSIVE "if"---there are plenty of other good
reasons to talk to three year olds).  As you approach an infinite
"why?" value, you either achieve total cosmic enlightenment or else
lose all your friends because they're sick of having to explain things
to you.

I hope this clears everything up.

	--dave


From: catherine yronwode 
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Subject: Re: Words of "Don't think twice, it's all right"
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 13:58:51 -0800

Dave Palmer wrote:
> 
> If'n is actually a mathematical term, "if and only if." It's an
> exclusive "if".  The statement follows the form (not p) if and only if
> (not q), that is: there ain't no use to sit and wonder why, babe,
> if [a]n[d only if] you don't know by now.  Therefore, if you DO know
> by now, then there IS a use to sit and wonder why.  That may sound
> self-contradictory but actually all Bob is trying to say is that it
> is that the girl shouldn't waste her time trying to analyze the
> situation unless she already knows all the facts and motives
> involved.  After all, KNOWING "why?" allows one to ask "why?" again in
> an ever broader sense.  If you don't know what I mean go talk to a
> three year old. (note: INCLUSIVE "if"---there are plenty of other good
> reasons to talk to three year olds).  As you approach an infinite
> "why?" value, you either achieve total cosmic enlightenment or else
> lose all your friends because they're sick of having to explain things
> to you.
> 
> I hope this clears everything up.
> 
>         --dave

Best laugh i've had all day, Dave. Thanks!!!

cat 

Lucky Mojo Curio Co: http://www.luckymojo.com/luckymojocatalogue.html
The Lucky W Amulet Archive: http://www.luckymojo.com/LuckyW.html


From: Brian Ross 
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Subject: Re: Words of "Don't think twice, it's all right"
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 19:12:12 -0400

Alan Fraser wrote:
> 
> In article , lvdm@xs4all.nl says...
> >
> >On the album "The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan" the song "Don't think twice,
> >it's all right" begins thus:
> >
> >Well, it ain't no use to sit and wonder why babe
> >Ifn you don't know by now
> >
> >"Ifn" is no typing error, but my phonetic transcript of what I hear. I
> >don't know what is actually sung here. Maybe it's "If-a", but that
> >doesn't have the n sound which I hear. Maybe it's "Even" peculiarly
> >pronounced. Or maybe it's something else. Your thoughts please, dear
> >rmd'ers.
> 
> The printed lyrics are:
> 
> An' it ain't no use to sit and wonder why, babe
> If you don't know by now
> 
> I agree Bob sings "Ifn". I've always assumed this to be an American vernacular
> usage. No doubt those from that part of the world will explain.
> 
> Alan

  It is in fact, a midwestern vernacular usage. Really, I've never seen
anyone actually right it with the n on the end, but a good number of
older folks in Minnesota do in fact pronounce it. Hell I still do
sometimes, and I haven't lived there since I was just a wee fella.
-- 
"I've been to sugartown, I shook the sugar down. Now I'm trying to get
to Heaven, before they close the door."     -Bob Dylan


From: jgerdes@stclair.k12.il.us (jgerdes)
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Subject: Re: Words of "Don't think twice, it's all right"
Date: 14 Oct 1997 06:46:01 GMT

In article <343EA51E.238A@luckymojo.com>, catherine yronwode
 wrote:

> Dave Palmer wrote:
> > 
> > If'n is actually a mathematical term, "if and only if." It's an
> > exclusive "if".  The statement follows the form (not p) if and only if
> > (not q), that is: there ain't no use to sit and wonder why, babe,
> > if [a]n[d only if] you don't know by now.  Therefore, if you DO know
> > by now, then there IS a use to sit and wonder why.  That may sound
> > self-contradictory but actually all Bob is trying to say is that it
> > is that the girl shouldn't waste her time trying to analyze the
> > situation unless she already knows all the facts and motives
> > involved.  After all, KNOWING "why?" allows one to ask "why?" again in
> > an ever broader sense.  If you don't know what I mean go talk to a
> > three year old. (note: INCLUSIVE "if"---there are plenty of other good
> > reasons to talk to three year olds).  As you approach an infinite
> > "why?" value, you either achieve total cosmic enlightenment or else
> > lose all your friends because they're sick of having to explain things
> > to you.
> > 
> > I hope this clears everything up.
> > 
> >         --dave
> 
> Best laugh i've had all day, Dave. Thanks!!!
> 
> cat 
> 
On an unrelated to Bob side note, the if and only if is what exposes a
famous paradox.  The one where they say "you have to cross half the room
before you can cross it all>"  And then you have to cross half that, etc,
and so in theory, you can never reach the wall.  This misrepresentation of
the transfinite is predicated upon a false premise, that you can cross
half AND ONLY HALF the room at one time.  You may, of course, cross more
than half at once.  Not Bob, but a tribute to his a to 3 to green non
linear thinking, eh?

Steve S.

Jgerdes@stclair.k12.il.us