97-06-12 04:09 dave pettit
97-06-15 09:32   Lonesome Sparrow
97-06-15 12:45     Dean Williams
97-06-20 19:38       Dave Palmer
97-06-21 14:40         Christine Consolvo
97-06-15 15:59     bobgill@erols.com
97-06-15 15:14       Matt Simonsen
97-06-18 05:28       catherine yronwode
97-06-27 17:40     Ben Taylor
97-06-21 20:00 Richard Hart
97-06-25 15:22 Patricia Jungwirth

Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 00:09:00 -0400
From: dave pettit 
Subject: Re: Mistaken lyrics

>
> Also, check out http://www.punkhart.com/dylan/lyrics/mondegreens.html

Okay, I guess that my first post is going to have to be on this thread -
in "Subterranean Homesick Blues," there is NO WAY anyone will ever
convince me that he actually says "Don't try no doze."  I've seen "Don't
Look Back," so I realize that the cue-card says No-Doze, but on the studio
recording, as well as the practice run-through on the Bootleg Series, he
says "Don't tie no bows."  I hate to think that I've mixed up the 'b' and
'd' sounds at the young age of 20, but maybe I have.  Everything I've ever
seen has said "No Doz" and it seems like "no bows" is a humorous mistake,
in the same vein as "Rosemary... took a cabbage into town."  PLEASE,
someone come to my rescue on this one, or tell me I'm wrong - whichever,
I'd like to know what others think of this.

dave pettit


"And even my befuddled brain is shining brightly, quite insane..."


From: lvdm@xs4all.nl (Lonesome Sparrow)
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Subject: Re: Words of Subterranean Homesick Blues
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 09:32:56 GMT

On 970612 dave pettit wrote (in the mistaken lyrics thread):

>in "Subterranean Homesick Blues," there is NO WAY anyone will ever
>convince me that he actually says "Don't try no doze."  I've seen "Don't
>Look Back," so I realize that the cue-card says No-Doze, but on the studio
>recording, as well as the practice run-through on the Bootleg Series, he
>says "Don't tie no bows."  I hate to think that I've mixed up the 'b' and
>'d' sounds at the young age of 20, but maybe I have.

I also hear definitely a b sound instead of a d sound in both versions
and thus far I have transcribed this line as "Don't try "No Boz"".
After reading dave's posting I've listened again, first to the
electric version, which made me think, "Yes, could be "Don't tie no
bows"", then to the acoustic one, which made me think, "Yes,
definitely "Don't tie no bows"".

I hear more differences like this one. I hear "pig pen" instead of
"big pen" in both versions. "hang bell" instead of "ring bell" in the
electric version, while in the acoustic it's something like "ring
bar".

Like dave, I like to know what others think about this.


From: "Dean Williams" 
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Subject: Re: Words of Subterranean Homesick Blues
Date: 15 Jun 1997 12:45:23 GMT

I also hear "no bows".  It also seems worth pointing out that Dylan pokes
fun at himself in a couple of places with those cue cards ("pawking meter"
etc.)  It seems to me that the "no-doze" is just another bit of
good-humored self-depreciation.

Dean


From: bobgill@erols.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Subject: Re: Words of Subterranean Homesick Blues
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 08:59:44 -0700

Lonesome Sparrow wrote:
> 
> On 970612 dave pettit wrote (in the mistaken lyrics thread):
> 
> >in "Subterranean Homesick Blues," there is NO WAY anyone will ever
> >convince me that he actually says "Don't try no doze."  I've seen "Don't
> >Look Back," so I realize that the cue-card says No-Doze, but on the studio
> >recording, as well as the practice run-through on the Bootleg Series, he
> >says "Don't tie no bows."  I hate to think that I've mixed up the 'b' and
> >'d' sounds at the young age of 20, but maybe I have.
> 
> I also hear definitely a b sound instead of a d sound in both versions
> and thus far I have transcribed this line as "Don't try "No Boz"".
> After reading dave's posting I've listened again, first to the
> electric version, which made me think, "Yes, could be "Don't tie no
> bows"", then to the acoustic one, which made me think, "Yes,
> definitely "Don't tie no bows"".
> 
> I hear more differences like this one. I hear "pig pen" instead of
> "big pen" in both versions. "hang bell" instead of "ring bell" in the
> electric version, while in the acoustic it's something like "ring
> bar".
>   Me too. I hear "tie no bows", "pig pen" and "hang bell". But maybe 
they were just mistakes, like "to haa- be on your own" in the third 
chorus of "Like a Rolling Stone". Remember, there are a lot of words in 
"Subterranean", and they're delivered in machine gun style, and Dylan 
didn't like to record multiple takes. So if he found himself stumbling 
over the lyrics at a couple of points (quite possibly he was reading them 
from a sheet of paper), he might have just mumbled something similar and 
kept right on going. I bet that accounts for most of the differences.

 -- Bob G.


From: simo9@iastate.edu (Matt Simonsen)
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Subject: Re: Words of Subterranean Homesick Blues
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 97 15:14:35 GMT

In article <33A41170.3E5D@erols.com>, bobgill@erols.com wrote:

> Remember, there are a lot of words in 
>"Subterranean", and they're delivered in machine gun style, and Dylan 
>didn't like to record multiple takes. So if he found himself stumbling 
>over the lyrics at a couple of points (quite possibly he was reading them 
>from a sheet of paper), he might have just mumbled something similar and 
>kept right on going. I bet that accounts for most of the differences.
>
> -- Bob G.

In fact, at Jones Beach June 30, 1988, Dylan opens with Subterranean and 
gets totally messed up.  It's hilarious as Bob gives a little pause, as if to 
think "What do I do now?" and then just gives his best Fred Flintstone 
impression into the mic: "YABBA YADDA YABBA YADDA!"  It's my favorite part of 
an incredible show:)
matt 


From: catherine yronwode 
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Subject: Re: Words of Subterranean Homesick Blues
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 21:28:23 -0800

bobgill@erols.com wrote:
> 
> Lonesome Sparrow wrote:
> >
> > On 970612 dave pettit wrote (in the mistaken lyrics thread):
> >
> > >in "Subterranean Homesick Blues," there is NO WAY anyone will ever
> > >convince me that he actually says "Don't try no doze."  
> >
> > I also hear definitely a b sound instead of a d sound
[...]
> > I hear more differences like this one. I hear "pig pen" instead of
> > "big pen" in both versions. "hang bell" instead of "ring bell" in 
> > the electric version
[...]
>  Me too. I hear "tie no bows", "pig pen" and "hang bell". But maybe
> they were just mistakes, like "to haa- be on your own" in the third
> chorus of "Like a Rolling Stone". 

Chalk up anpther "me too" from an old-time fan who never bothered to
look at lyrics sheets because there was never any doubt in my mond that
the words were "tie no bows", "pig pen" and "hang bell" -- and can't
hear them any other way now, even when told to do so. 

catherine yronwode
The Lucky Mojo Curio Co.: http://www.luckymojo.com

The Lucky W Amulet Archive: http://www.luckymojo.com/LuckyW.html  
Hoodoo Catalogue: http://www.luckymojo.com/luckymojocatalogue.html
Freemasonry for Women: http://www.luckymojo.com/CoMasonry.html 
The Sacred Landscape: http://www.luckymojo.com/sacredland.html
Karezza and Tantra: http://www.luckymojo.com/sacredsex.html


Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
From: arxt@midway.uchicago.edu (Dave Palmer)
Subject: Re: Words of Subterranean Homesick Blues
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 19:38:15 GMT

Actually, the card says "No Dose" and the song book says "No Doze", and
the pills are called "No Doz" (with one of those long vowel symbols over
the "o").  It kinda sounds like "don't tie no bows" to me, but what he
MEANS is obviously "keep a clean head and carry a lightbulb."

	--dave


From: consolvo@ix.netcom.com (Christine Consolvo)
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Subject: Re: Words of Subterranean Homesick Blues
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 14:40:43 GMT

On Fri, 20 Jun 1997 19:38:15 GMT, arxt@midway.uchicago.edu (Dave
Palmer) wrote:
::Actually, the card says "No Dose" and the song book says "No Doze", and
::the pills are called "No Doz" (with one of those long vowel symbols over
::the "o").  It kinda sounds like "don't tie no bows" to me, but what he
::MEANS is obviously "keep a clean head and carry a lightbulb."

I've always thought that it was originally written as "no doz", but
that the record company asked for it to be changed due to possible
legal ramifications. There is no doubt in my mind that he says "tie no
bows" on the record.

Just thought I'd mention it...

Christine


Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 16:00:42 -0400
From: Richard Hart 
Subject: Re: Don't try No ?oze

Re: the discussion about the "No Doze" line from Subterrranean Homesick
Blues, I have always felt that this line was DEFINITELY "Don't try No-Boze,"
and was a way to sidestep any legal problems concomitant with actually saying
a product's real name.  Things have loosened up quite a bit since then, but
using a product's name was an action that was once much more apt to initaiate
litigation, and Columbia's legal department may have recommended substituting
a "B" for a "D."

Richard Hart


Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 01:22:30 +1000
From: Patricia Jungwirth 
Subject: Re: No Doze

> Mon, 23 Jun 1997 15:27:16 GMT
> Alan Fraser 
>On Mon, 23 Jun 1997 22:49:37 -0700, Dr CP Lee 
>wrote:
>
>>Regarding last week's discussion re. lyrics in SHB and the 'No doze' line
>>- At the time it came out we all used to think Dylan was refering to an
>>over the counter stimulant that was sold in England as 'Do-Doze'
>>(pronounced as in the extinct bird Dodo's).
>>

In the 'slow' take (Sony's Bootleg Series) it sounds pretty clear to me -
"don't tie no bows" - just like I always heard it
(only mentioning this cos nobody else has)

Tricia


From: Ben Taylor 
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Subject: Re: Words of Subterranean Homesick Blues
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 18:40:10 +0100

Lonesome Sparrow  writes:
>I hear more differences like this one. I hear "pig pen" instead of
>"big pen" in both versions. "hang bell" instead of "ring bell" in the
>electric version, while in the acoustic it's something like "ring
>bar".

Worth checking your copy of "Lyrics 1962-1985" for the reproduction of
(the? one of?) Dylan's original typescript for the song. For instance:

  "ring bell/ hard t tell if anything is gonna sell"

(I checked - the typescript does not contain the nodoz/no bows line)


    ?- years of school an        put you on the day shift
     look out kid/ XXXX they  got it all hid
    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
    X it's nowhere, all bare/ they just pay you fare there
      (sic?)
    XX t the s?og/thick fog/they tell you hthat it's fresh air
     get down/ dro? ?own/ make it out the back door
    or else quit laying on the floor before you get your back sore
                      (closet)

Ben Taylor
--
bptaylor@laguna.demon.co.uk