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Subject:      EDLIS - Witmark...
From:         rcj10@cus.cam.ac.uk (Craig Jamieson)
Date:         1995/06/15
Newsgroups:   rec.music.dylan

                            Witmark


EDLIS has  been receiving a huge number of enquiries seeking
advice on  how to  get  the  best  version  of  the  Witmark
material on CD.

The official  answer is  get it  on DAT tape, as all the CDs
have drawbacks.  But no one likes that answer.

So below  is a  rough listing  of  EDLIS'  first  unfinished
thoughts on the three titles from which you must choose. For
the wacky  among you  who just trust EDLISian advice without
weighing the  evidence the  long and short of it is: Buy The
Witmark Years [T-438].

But there  is no  sport in  that. EDLIS has its opinion, but
wishes  to   have  your  reaction,  comments,  improvements,
thoughts, corrections,  considerations, so that it can stick
to its opinion no matter what you say. ;-)

Other  episodes   of  this   nature  have   led  to   heated
controversy, with  the  strongest  opinions  often  held  by
people about CDs they turn out not to have heard! While this
is correct  methodology  within  the  traditions  of  UseNet
Newsgroups, some might prefer more solid opinions.

Remember EDLIS  has always  held opinions upon which you can
act, it  has never  sat on  any fences.  The anger  this has
caused  in  the  past  has  led  to  fiery  eyed  characters
suggesting I  accompany them  down  a  dark  alley  after  a
concert as they begin to foam at the mouth. I always decline
these kind  invites, especially where I have seen the hidden
baseball bats.  My kind  American front-row  balcony friends
assure me  not to  worry but  as I begin to think they would
defend me  and the honour of EDLISian opinion I realise they
mean simply that they would video the event in high fidelity
and capture  it all  on binaural  DAT for archival and legal
purposes!

Bravely EDLIS now says what it thinks of Witmark, right down
to  the   old  recommendation  field  on  Anthony  Kapolkian
principles. Watch the sparks fly!


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============================================================================


--
The Witmark Years 1962-1964 / Bob Dylan [1962-1966]
2 CDs
Capricorn Records, CR-2021, CR-2022, 1994
Made in Australia
Stereo
Matrix: CR-2021, CR-2022

Disc One:
Total Running Time: 68:53

1.  Blowin' In The Wind (2:43) [4]
2.  Long Ago, Far Away (2:30) [1]
3.  Tomorrow Is A Long Time (3:51) [16]
4.  Ballad Of Hollis Brown (4:11) [30]
5.  The Death Of Emmet Till (4:31) [26]
6.  A Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall (7:03) [21]
7.  Let Me Die In My Footsteps (1:37) [33]
8.  Quit Your Lowdown Ways (2:44) [28]
9.  Baby I'm In The Mood For You (1:35) [29]
10. Long Time Gone (3:47) [2]
11. Don't Think Twice, It's All Right (3:27) [22]
12. Oxford Town (2:30) [23]
13. Masters Of War (4:41) [24]
14. Walkin' Down The Line (2:54) [25] *
15. Talkin' John  Birch Paranoid  Blues [Talking  John Birch
Paranoid Blues] [13]
16. All Over You (3:45) [9]
17. Bound To Lose, Bound To Win (1:22) [34]
18. I'd Hate To Be You On That Dreadful Day (2:00) [35]
19. I Shall Be Free (4:31) [14]
20. Bob Dylan's Dream (3:56) [27]
21. Bob Dylan's Blues (1:58) [6]

Disc Two:
Total Running Time: 69:25

22. Boots Of Spanish Leather (5:42) [32]
23. Girl Of The North Country (3:08) [31]
24. Seven Curses (3:12) [7]
25. Hero Blues (1:38) [15]
26. Gypsy Lou (3:48) [19]
27. Whatcha Gonna Do? (3:26) [18]
28. Ain't Gonna Grieve (1:38) [3]
29. Only A Hobo (2:20) [17]
30. John Brown (4:18) [12]
31. When The Ship Comes In (2:54) [10] *
32. The Times They Are A-Changin' (3:00) [11] *
33. Paths Of Victory (4:01) [8] *
34. Farewell [Fare Thee Well] (4:06) [5]
35. Baby,  Let Me  Follow You  Down (Eric  von Schmidt  [?])
(3:00) [20]
36. Guess I'm Doing Fine (3:00) [37]
37. Mr. Tambourine Man (5:56) [40]
38. Mama, You Been On My Mind (2:14) [39]
39. I'll Keep It With Mine [F] [14]
40. Eternal Circle (1:15) [38]
41. Percy's Song (7:17) [36]

(1-41)  Witmark & Sons Demos, New York City, New York, 1962-
1964. [035]  Tracks 14  and  31-33,  were  released  on  The
Bootleg Series (1991).
(38-39)  Columbia Studios,  New York  City, New York, 9 June
1964. [070] Another Side Of Bob Dylan (1964) outtakes.

(1) Recorded June  1962   (2) Recorded November  1962    (3-
9) Recorded December 1962  (10-18) Recorded March 1963  (19-
22) Recorded April  1963   (23-25) Recorded May  1963   (27-
30) Recorded August  1963   (31-32) Recorded September  1963
(33-34) Recorded December  1963    (35-36) Recorded  January
1964   (37-39) Recorded June  1964  (40-41) Possible Witmark
Demos

Numbered limited  edition of  1000. "A  two CD set". Classic
mono studio recordings in acceptable quality given the dates
of recording.

"Let's just put this one down for kicks," opens All Over You
[9].

When The  Ship Comes  In [10]  and The  Times  They  Are  A-
Changin' [11] are in good sound quality.

John Brown  [12] has a fluffed line, "Do what... You make me
proud to  know you  hold a gun, Do what the captain says..."
but no tape splice...

Talking John  Birch Paranoid Blues [15] opens with, "I don't
know what  to do  with Talking New York..." and contains the
out of  the ordinary line, "The other two percent are fellow
Birchers... just like me, and Al Grossman."

Masters Of  War [24]  has a  very real  door closing  in the
beginning.

Let Me  Die In  My Footsteps  [33] ends prematurely with Bob
Dylan interrupting  himself with,  "You want this? You wanna
put this on? It's awful long. I mean it's not that long, but
it's just  that it's  a drag, you know. I've sung it so many
times."

"Here's one, I can write you out the verses to this later, I
can't really remember this right now, I'll write you out the
verses to it," opens Bound To Lose, Bound To Win [34], "I'll
write you  out all  the verses for it, then like hand 'em to
you, [alright,  this one's  called Bound To Lose...]" closes
it.

Percy's Song  [36] and  Eternal Circle [38] are not taken by
everyone to  be original Witmark Demos but they are included
here. For  example they are not taken to be original Witmark
Demos by  Clinton Heylin  (p. 13 of  his To Live Outside The
Law :  A Guide To Bob Dylan Bootlegs, Sale : Labour of Love,
1989). He does include I'll Keep It With Mine [F].

There are  of course  eight studio  outtakes  and  one  live
recording used  as Witmark  Demos, but  only two of these --
I'll Keep  It With  Mine [F]  and Mama  You Been  On My Mind
[G]  -- are  included on these CDs... Of the nine, four were
released on  The Bootleg  Series  (1991),  two  on  Biograph
(1985) (one  of which  is the  13 January  1965 I'll Keep It
With Mine  [H] [1/078.1]), and one -- I'll Keep It With Mine
[F] --  on Warner  Bros. 7  Arts Music  Inc.  Demo  LP  (XTV
221567, 1967).  The ninth  -- California [E] -- is available
on various  CD bootlegs (Strip Tease [T-116], Collection [T-
159]).

The  sound   on  The  Witmark  Years  [T-438]  is  at  times
marginally brighter  and clearer than the sound on Through A
Bullet Of  Light [T-378]  which is  marginally brighter  and
clearer than  the sound  on The  Witmark Demos  [T-312]. Not
consistently though...  Through A  Bullet Of  Light  [T-378]
includes Percy's  Song [36] and Eternal Circle [38], and the
legitimately released  guitar Mama  You Been On My Mind [G].
The Witmark  Demos [T-312]  does not.  The Witmark Years [T-
438] includes Percy's Song [36] and Eternal Circle [38], but
not the  legitimately released  guitar Mama  You Been  On My
Mind [G].  The Witmark  Years [T-438]  and The Witmark Demos
[T-312] include  the unreleased  piano Mama  You Been  On My
Mind [39].  Through A  Bullet Of  Light  [T-378]  does  not.
Through A  Bullet Of  Light [T-378] has faults like the tape
splice in John Brown [12]. The Witmark Years [T-438] and The
Witmark Demos  [T-312] are  of a  more steady quality... All
three have  a skip  in the opening of Fare Thee Well [5]. On
Through A  Bullet Of Light [T-378] and The Witmark Demos [T-
312] the  song I  Shall Be  Free [14]  is preceded by, "This
imposes a  real problem...  impose, is  that the right word?
Supposes a  real problem."  The Witmark  Years [T-438] omits
this. Swings and roundabouts.

So it  appears The Witmark Years [T-438] is the best source,
and second and third place depend largely on your tastes and
priorities, Through  A Bullet  Of Light  [T-378]  might  win
second place  on its  sound, The Witmark Demos [T-312] might
win second  place on choice of the unreleased piano Mama You
Been On My Mind...

TOWNSEND NUMBER: 438
PERFORMANCE: 9
SOUND: 6
RECOMMENDATION: 9  Essential to any collection! Cf T-312, T-
378.


--
Through A  Bullet Of  Light /  Bob Dylan [1962-1964] {*} {#}
{P}
2 CDs
Golom, 774554, [1994]
Matrix: FIRE CD 2300, FIRE CD 2301
Total Running Time: 142:03 (2 1/4 hours)

Disc 1:
Total Running Time: 73:40

1.  Long Ago, Far Away (2:28) [1]
2.  Long Time Gone (3:44) [2]
3.  Ain't Gonna Grieve (1:26) [3]
4.  Blowin' In The Wind (2:42) [4]
5.  Farewell [Fare Thee Well] (3:58) [5]
6.  Bob Dylan's Blues (1:56) [6]
7.  Seven Curses (3:08) [7]
8.  Paths of Victory (4:09) [8] *
9.  All Over You (3:47) [9]
10. When The Ship Comes In (2:59) [10] *
11. The Times They Are A-Changin' (3:07) [11] *
12. John Brown (3:28) [12]
13. Talkin' John  Birch Paranoid  Blues [Talking  John Birch
Paranoid Blues] (3:13) [13]
14. I Shall Be Free (4:58) [14]
15. Hero Blues (1:36) [15]
16. Tomorrow Is A Long Time (3:44) [16]
17. Only A Hobo (2:23) [17]
18. Whatcha Gonna Do (3:26) [18]
19. Gypsy Lou (3:43) [19]
20. Baby,  Let Me  Follow You  Down (Eric  von Schmidt  [?])
(1:55) [20]
21. A Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall (6:58) [21]
22. Don't  Think Twice It's Alright [Don't Think Twice, It's
All Right] (3:43) [22]

Disc 2:
Total Running Time: 68:23

23. Oxford Town (2:37) [23]
24. Masters Of War (4:38) [24]
25. Walkin' Down The Line (2:44) [25]
26. The Death Of Emmett Till (4:32) [26]
27. Bob Dylan's Dream (3:57) [27]
28. Quit  Your Low-Down Ways [Quit Your Lowdown Ways] (2:48)
[28]
29. Baby I'm In The Mood For You (1:36) [29]
30. Ballad Of Hollis Brown (4:09) [30]
31. Girl  From The North Country [Girl Of The North Country]
(3:10) [31]
32. Boots Of Spanish Leather (5:44) [32]
33. Let  Me  Die  In  Your  Footsteps  [Let  Me  Die  In  My
Footsteps] (1:35) [33]
34. Bound To Lose, Bound To Win (1:20) [34]
35. I'd  Hate To Be You [I'd Hate To Be You On That Dreadful
Day] (1:58) [35]
36. Percy's Song (7:36) [36]
37. Guess I'm Doing Fine [Guess I'm Doin' Fine] (4:07) [37]
38. Eternal Circle (2:56) [38]
39. Mamma  You Been  On My  Mind [Mama  You Been On My Mind]
(2:51) [G] [15] *
40. Mr. Tambourine Man (5:59) [40]
41. I'll Keep It With Mine (3:39) [F] [14]

(1-41)  Witmark & Sons Demos, New York City, New York, 1962-
1964. [035]  Track 39  was released  on The  Bootleg  Series
(1991).
(39, 41)  Columbia  Studios, New York City, New York, 9 June
1964. [070] Another Side Of Bob Dylan (1964) outtakes.

"Through A Bullet Of Light Witmark & Son's Demo's". "Witmark
& Son's Music Publishers Demo's". "Through A Bullet Of Light
Witmark &  Son's Publishing".  "Through A  Bullet  Of  Light
Witmark & Son's".

The source is said to be Michael Krogsgaard's master tape of
the acetates.

John Brown  [12] has a fluffed line, "Do what... You make me
proud to  know you  hold a gun, Do what the captain says..."
Then Through  A Bullet  Of Light  has a horrendous splice in
the tape of the acetate source (0:40), verses are lost...

Whatcha Gonna  Do (18)  and Gypsy Lou (19) are listed on the
insert as one track.

Bound To  Lose, Bound  To Win  [34] includes an extra spoken
phrase before  it is  cut, "alright, this one's called Bound
To Lose..."

Percy's Song  [36] and  Eternal Circle [38] are not taken by
everyone to  be original Witmark Demos but they are included
here.

Mama You  Been On My Mind (39) is not the piano version, the
expected 39th  track! It  is  instead  the  released  studio
outtake used  as a  demo, the  guitar version.  The  Witmark
Demos [T-312]  and The  Witmark Years  [T-438] omit this and
have the expected piano version.

TOWNSEND NUMBER: 378
PERFORMANCE: 9
SOUND: 6
RECOMMENDATION: 0  Prefer T-438 just by a hair's breadth. Cf
T-312.


--
The Witmark Demos / Bob Dylan [1962-1964] {*} {P}
2 CDs
Spine and front insert title: The Witmark Demos
Back insert title: The Witmark Demos 1962-1964
Disc title: Zimmerman's Eary Demo [sic, not "Early"]
Off Beat Records, BD1, BD2, (XXCD 14), [1994]
[Made in Japan]
Matrix: BD1 55215X1, 80389M1 BD2
Total Running Time: 134:59 (2 1/4 hours)

Disc 1:
Total Running Time: 69:44

1.  Baby I'm In The Mood For You (1:33) [29]
2.  Quit Your Lowdown Ways (2:52) [28]
3.  Long Time Gone (3:53) [2]
4.  Long Ago, Far Away (2:30) [1]
5.  Ain't Gonna Grieve (1:30) [3]
6.  Seven Curses (3:17) [7]
7.  Let Me Die In My Footsteps (1:39) [33]
8.  Bob Dylan's Blues (2:00) [6]
9.  Talkin' John  Birch Paranoid  Blues [Talking  John Birch
Paranoid Blues] (3:22) [13]
10. The Death Of Emmett Till (4:39) [26]
11. Hero Blues (1:41) [15]
12. Only A Hobo (2:30) [17]
13. All Over You (3:57) [9]
14. Bound To Lose, Bound To Win (1:25) [34]
15. Baby,  Let Me  Follow You  Down (Eric  von Schmidt  [?])
(2:01) [20]
16. A Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall (6:59) [21]
17. Don't Think Twice, It's All Right (3:44) [22]
18. Oxford Town (2:36) [23]
19. Masters Of War (4:38) [24]
20. Girl  From The North Country [Girl Of The North Country]
(3:12) [31]
21. I Shall Be Free (5:01) [14]
22. Tomorrow Is A Long Time (3:52) [16]

Disc 2:
Total Running Time: 65:15

23. Boots Of Spanish Leather (5:43) [32]
24. Bob Dylan's Dream (3:58) [27]
25. Farewell [Fare Thee Well] (4:07) [5]
26. Guess I'm Doin' Fine (4:14) [37]
27. John Brown (4:22) [12]
28. Watcha Gonna Do [Whatcha Gonna Do] (3:31) [18]
29. Gypsy Lou (3:44) [19]
30. Paths of Victory (4:08) [8] *
31. Walking  Down The  Line [Walkin'  Down The  Line] (3:28)
[25]
32. Ballad Of Hollis Brown (4:13) [30]
33. I'd Hate To Be You On That Dreadful Day (2:01) [35]
34. Blowin' In The Wind (2:42) [4]
35. When The Ship Comes In (3:02) [10] *
36. The Times They Are A-Changin' (3:08) [11] *
37. Mama,  You've Been On My Mind [Mama You Been On My Mind]
(2:15) [39]
38. Mr. Tambourine Man (5:58) [40]
39. I'll Keep It With Mine (3:41) [F]

(1-39)  Witmark & Sons Demos, New York City, New York, 1962-
1964. [035]  Tracks 30,  31, 35  and 36 were released on The
Bootleg Series (1991).
(39)  Columbia Studios,  New York  City, New  York,  9  June
1964. [070] Another Side Of Bob Dylan (1964) outtake.
(37-39)  "Taken from acetate".

Tracks 1-39  Bob  Dylan:  vocals,  tracks  1-34  Bob  Dylan:
acoustic  guitar,   tracks  11-12,   21,  28-31  Bob  Dylan:
harmonica, tracks 35-39 Bob Dylan: piano.

"The Witmark  Demos were  mainly recorded  during  1962  and
early 1964.  These are  the songs  of which Paul Cable -- in
his book  'Bob Dylan His unreleased recordings' -- said, 'It
is a  shame that  the songs  on  this  tape  have  wound  up
spattered across  a whole  load of bootlegs'". These are the
precise words  at the  bottom of  the track  listing  insert
found in the vinyl boxed set: Witmark Demos (Germany, 1983).

John Brown  [12] has a fluffed line, "Do what... You make me
proud to  know you  hold a gun, Do what the captain says..."
but no tape splice...

Percy's Song  [36] and Eternal Circle [38] are taken by some
to be original Witmark Demos but are not included here. Both
can be  found on  The Witmark  Years [T-438]  and Through  A
Bullet Of  Light [T-378] . Percy's Song [36] can be found on
Twelve Curses [T-110].

The order  of the  tracks on  these CDs is not based on date
order but largely follows the track order of the boxed vinyl
three LP  bootleg: Witmark  Demos (Germany, 1983), though it
does exclude  the vinyl side five version of the guitar Mama
You Been  On My Mind [G], which is among the studio outtakes
used as  demos. In other words it is largely faithful to the
order of  the tape which has been circulating for many, many
years.

cctr147@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Les):
"My  main   comment  is  that  although  the  quality  seems
excellent, it  is actually  well below  the quality  of  low
generation copies of the non-bootleg tape!"

Sparse but  effective packaging,  with  silver  CDs  starkly
printed in green. The front cover black and white photograph
is a  familiar Hilton Kramer photograph. A small early black
and white  harmonica-holder photograph  is found on the back
insert. The inserts have a pleasing cream colour background.
The track  listing is  not numbered  though, an unforgivable
crime on a CD!

TOWNSEND NUMBER: 312
PERFORMANCE: 9
SOUND: 5
RECOMMENDATION: 0  Prefer T-438 just by a hair's breadth. Cf
T-378.


    ______          .(((()
   |      |         (_ '\)
   |      |       __/  \()!
 .-|______|. ____(|___/  |!
 :__|____|__|____| :     |!
 :|_____________| _;_/\__|!
 :|             |/   ____)!
 :|             |   \!""""!
 :|  _________  |\__/)____!
 #|_|         |_|  (/!    !
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''


Subject: Re: EDLIS - Witmark... From: MOE Date: 1995/06/15 Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan Craig/EDLIS: A great post. Just thought I would put in my two bits since you asked for comments. I concur that "The Witmark Years" is the preferable of the 3 packages, and yes I have heard all three. The sound is a bit brighter on this one, not to mention a better package. Additionally, (IMO) the front cover of the CD belongs in the bootleg cover Hall of Fame. Essential stuff, this is. Ciao - Moe
Subject: Re: Witmarks From: cctr147@csc.canterbury.ac.nz Date: 1995/06/19 Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan > Witmark > > >EDLIS has been receiving a huge number of enquiries seeking >advice on how to get the best version of the Witmark >>material on CD. > >The official answer is get it on DAT tape, as all the CDs >have drawbacks. But no one likes that answer. A low generation source tape, is my personal choice. DAT masters do not exist. > >So below is a rough listing of EDLIS' first unfinished >thoughts on the three titles from which you must choose. For >the wacky among you who just trust EDLISian advice without >weighing the evidence the long and short of it is: Buy The >Witmark Years [T-438]. I was a bit surprised to read this recommendation in light of the very detailed analysis in ISIS 60. Phil devotes 5 columns to a very thorough comparison but reaches a different conclusion. To quote 'Which kinda leaves the question of which is the best disk wide open. If you need the best quality recording of every track the solution is simple enough, you need both disks. If, however, you only want one then a compromise is unavoidable. For 90% of the time THROUGH A BULLET OF LIGHT wins on recording quality, but trips up with the fault on John Brown and the balls up with Mama you been on my mind, while THE WITMARK YEARS while generally slightly inferior on recording quality at least gets the track listing and it does have those two outstanding quality recordings.' (When the ship comes in & The times they are a-changing) [snip] >The sound on The Witmark Years [T-438] is at times >marginally brighter and clearer than the sound on Through A >Bullet Of Light [T-378] which is marginally brighter and >clearer than the sound on The Witmark Demos [T-312]. Not >consistently though... another quote: ' For the most part though THE WITMARK YEARS fell below par, on some tracks it was blatently inferior...' - ISIS 60 So what is going on here? Phil Townsend explains in some detail how ' the test was made by listening to the disks on headphones plugged directly into the DAC output, bypassing even the amplifier, so that I got as close to the sound as possible' - ISIS 60 Is it possible that Phil has 'defective' ears?? How can these results be so different? Do EDLIS own all these CDs or have they used tapes of CDs? Craig, can you please explain your listening setup so that that it can be taken into account when we read your recommendations. Les
From: Paul Traverse Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan Subject: CD Rot on The Witmark Years Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 23:55:06 -0330 Message-ID: <3504B292.1E870D8D@roadrunner.nf.net> I'm pretty sure that my copy of The Witmark Years is experiencing CD rot. It is released by Capricorn Records and manufactured by Trident East. Two symptoms from the alt.bootlegging FAQ are present: (3) On playing the disc, there seems to be an inordinate amount of "static-like" background noise. The level of noise that can be heard rises and falls with the the volume (ie. soft passages vs. loud passages) of the music on the disc (not your volume knob). The louder the actual music, the more apparent the background noise will be. This symptom is not apparent at the outset, but eventually creeps in and gets worse and worse over time. (4) Your CD player exhibits tracking problems while playing the discs. This symptom is not apparent at the outset - or it could be due to other factors like the CD player itself. All that is known is that the affected discs will exhibit this problem at some point. Note: If your CD is suffering from 2 or more of the above symptoms, especially (1), then your CD is probably suffering from CD rot. There seems to be no correlation between how many times you've played a CD and when CD rot sets in. The disk is not discolored, but is experiencing the problems above. Just a note to let everyone know of the possibility. -- Paul Traverse Memorial University Of Newfoundland Computer Science Department mailto:traverse@roadrunner.nf.net http://home.thezone.net/~traverse