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Subject: EDLIS - Witmark...
From: rcj10@cus.cam.ac.uk (Craig Jamieson)
Date: 1995/06/15
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Witmark
EDLIS has been receiving a huge number of enquiries seeking
advice on how to get the best version of the Witmark
material on CD.
The official answer is get it on DAT tape, as all the CDs
have drawbacks. But no one likes that answer.
So below is a rough listing of EDLIS' first unfinished
thoughts on the three titles from which you must choose. For
the wacky among you who just trust EDLISian advice without
weighing the evidence the long and short of it is: Buy The
Witmark Years [T-438].
But there is no sport in that. EDLIS has its opinion, but
wishes to have your reaction, comments, improvements,
thoughts, corrections, considerations, so that it can stick
to its opinion no matter what you say. ;-)
Other episodes of this nature have led to heated
controversy, with the strongest opinions often held by
people about CDs they turn out not to have heard! While this
is correct methodology within the traditions of UseNet
Newsgroups, some might prefer more solid opinions.
Remember EDLIS has always held opinions upon which you can
act, it has never sat on any fences. The anger this has
caused in the past has led to fiery eyed characters
suggesting I accompany them down a dark alley after a
concert as they begin to foam at the mouth. I always decline
these kind invites, especially where I have seen the hidden
baseball bats. My kind American front-row balcony friends
assure me not to worry but as I begin to think they would
defend me and the honour of EDLISian opinion I realise they
mean simply that they would video the event in high fidelity
and capture it all on binaural DAT for archival and legal
purposes!
Bravely EDLIS now says what it thinks of Witmark, right down
to the old recommendation field on Anthony Kapolkian
principles. Watch the sparks fly!
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\===== / /~~~\ \ \ | ________________________|-~
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`______'' `_______'
Good car to drive, after a war
http://128.39.161.105/dok/gif/GOODCAR.GIF
============================================================================
--
The Witmark Years 1962-1964 / Bob Dylan [1962-1966]
2 CDs
Capricorn Records, CR-2021, CR-2022, 1994
Made in Australia
Stereo
Matrix: CR-2021, CR-2022
Disc One:
Total Running Time: 68:53
1. Blowin' In The Wind (2:43) [4]
2. Long Ago, Far Away (2:30) [1]
3. Tomorrow Is A Long Time (3:51) [16]
4. Ballad Of Hollis Brown (4:11) [30]
5. The Death Of Emmet Till (4:31) [26]
6. A Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall (7:03) [21]
7. Let Me Die In My Footsteps (1:37) [33]
8. Quit Your Lowdown Ways (2:44) [28]
9. Baby I'm In The Mood For You (1:35) [29]
10. Long Time Gone (3:47) [2]
11. Don't Think Twice, It's All Right (3:27) [22]
12. Oxford Town (2:30) [23]
13. Masters Of War (4:41) [24]
14. Walkin' Down The Line (2:54) [25] *
15. Talkin' John Birch Paranoid Blues [Talking John Birch
Paranoid Blues] [13]
16. All Over You (3:45) [9]
17. Bound To Lose, Bound To Win (1:22) [34]
18. I'd Hate To Be You On That Dreadful Day (2:00) [35]
19. I Shall Be Free (4:31) [14]
20. Bob Dylan's Dream (3:56) [27]
21. Bob Dylan's Blues (1:58) [6]
Disc Two:
Total Running Time: 69:25
22. Boots Of Spanish Leather (5:42) [32]
23. Girl Of The North Country (3:08) [31]
24. Seven Curses (3:12) [7]
25. Hero Blues (1:38) [15]
26. Gypsy Lou (3:48) [19]
27. Whatcha Gonna Do? (3:26) [18]
28. Ain't Gonna Grieve (1:38) [3]
29. Only A Hobo (2:20) [17]
30. John Brown (4:18) [12]
31. When The Ship Comes In (2:54) [10] *
32. The Times They Are A-Changin' (3:00) [11] *
33. Paths Of Victory (4:01) [8] *
34. Farewell [Fare Thee Well] (4:06) [5]
35. Baby, Let Me Follow You Down (Eric von Schmidt [?])
(3:00) [20]
36. Guess I'm Doing Fine (3:00) [37]
37. Mr. Tambourine Man (5:56) [40]
38. Mama, You Been On My Mind (2:14) [39]
39. I'll Keep It With Mine [F] [14]
40. Eternal Circle (1:15) [38]
41. Percy's Song (7:17) [36]
(1-41) Witmark & Sons Demos, New York City, New York, 1962-
1964. [035] Tracks 14 and 31-33, were released on The
Bootleg Series (1991).
(38-39) Columbia Studios, New York City, New York, 9 June
1964. [070] Another Side Of Bob Dylan (1964) outtakes.
(1) Recorded June 1962 (2) Recorded November 1962 (3-
9) Recorded December 1962 (10-18) Recorded March 1963 (19-
22) Recorded April 1963 (23-25) Recorded May 1963 (27-
30) Recorded August 1963 (31-32) Recorded September 1963
(33-34) Recorded December 1963 (35-36) Recorded January
1964 (37-39) Recorded June 1964 (40-41) Possible Witmark
Demos
Numbered limited edition of 1000. "A two CD set". Classic
mono studio recordings in acceptable quality given the dates
of recording.
"Let's just put this one down for kicks," opens All Over You
[9].
When The Ship Comes In [10] and The Times They Are A-
Changin' [11] are in good sound quality.
John Brown [12] has a fluffed line, "Do what... You make me
proud to know you hold a gun, Do what the captain says..."
but no tape splice...
Talking John Birch Paranoid Blues [15] opens with, "I don't
know what to do with Talking New York..." and contains the
out of the ordinary line, "The other two percent are fellow
Birchers... just like me, and Al Grossman."
Masters Of War [24] has a very real door closing in the
beginning.
Let Me Die In My Footsteps [33] ends prematurely with Bob
Dylan interrupting himself with, "You want this? You wanna
put this on? It's awful long. I mean it's not that long, but
it's just that it's a drag, you know. I've sung it so many
times."
"Here's one, I can write you out the verses to this later, I
can't really remember this right now, I'll write you out the
verses to it," opens Bound To Lose, Bound To Win [34], "I'll
write you out all the verses for it, then like hand 'em to
you, [alright, this one's called Bound To Lose...]" closes
it.
Percy's Song [36] and Eternal Circle [38] are not taken by
everyone to be original Witmark Demos but they are included
here. For example they are not taken to be original Witmark
Demos by Clinton Heylin (p. 13 of his To Live Outside The
Law : A Guide To Bob Dylan Bootlegs, Sale : Labour of Love,
1989). He does include I'll Keep It With Mine [F].
There are of course eight studio outtakes and one live
recording used as Witmark Demos, but only two of these --
I'll Keep It With Mine [F] and Mama You Been On My Mind
[G] -- are included on these CDs... Of the nine, four were
released on The Bootleg Series (1991), two on Biograph
(1985) (one of which is the 13 January 1965 I'll Keep It
With Mine [H] [1/078.1]), and one -- I'll Keep It With Mine
[F] -- on Warner Bros. 7 Arts Music Inc. Demo LP (XTV
221567, 1967). The ninth -- California [E] -- is available
on various CD bootlegs (Strip Tease [T-116], Collection [T-
159]).
The sound on The Witmark Years [T-438] is at times
marginally brighter and clearer than the sound on Through A
Bullet Of Light [T-378] which is marginally brighter and
clearer than the sound on The Witmark Demos [T-312]. Not
consistently though... Through A Bullet Of Light [T-378]
includes Percy's Song [36] and Eternal Circle [38], and the
legitimately released guitar Mama You Been On My Mind [G].
The Witmark Demos [T-312] does not. The Witmark Years [T-
438] includes Percy's Song [36] and Eternal Circle [38], but
not the legitimately released guitar Mama You Been On My
Mind [G]. The Witmark Years [T-438] and The Witmark Demos
[T-312] include the unreleased piano Mama You Been On My
Mind [39]. Through A Bullet Of Light [T-378] does not.
Through A Bullet Of Light [T-378] has faults like the tape
splice in John Brown [12]. The Witmark Years [T-438] and The
Witmark Demos [T-312] are of a more steady quality... All
three have a skip in the opening of Fare Thee Well [5]. On
Through A Bullet Of Light [T-378] and The Witmark Demos [T-
312] the song I Shall Be Free [14] is preceded by, "This
imposes a real problem... impose, is that the right word?
Supposes a real problem." The Witmark Years [T-438] omits
this. Swings and roundabouts.
So it appears The Witmark Years [T-438] is the best source,
and second and third place depend largely on your tastes and
priorities, Through A Bullet Of Light [T-378] might win
second place on its sound, The Witmark Demos [T-312] might
win second place on choice of the unreleased piano Mama You
Been On My Mind...
TOWNSEND NUMBER: 438
PERFORMANCE: 9
SOUND: 6
RECOMMENDATION: 9 Essential to any collection! Cf T-312, T-
378.
--
Through A Bullet Of Light / Bob Dylan [1962-1964] {*} {#}
{P}
2 CDs
Golom, 774554, [1994]
Matrix: FIRE CD 2300, FIRE CD 2301
Total Running Time: 142:03 (2 1/4 hours)
Disc 1:
Total Running Time: 73:40
1. Long Ago, Far Away (2:28) [1]
2. Long Time Gone (3:44) [2]
3. Ain't Gonna Grieve (1:26) [3]
4. Blowin' In The Wind (2:42) [4]
5. Farewell [Fare Thee Well] (3:58) [5]
6. Bob Dylan's Blues (1:56) [6]
7. Seven Curses (3:08) [7]
8. Paths of Victory (4:09) [8] *
9. All Over You (3:47) [9]
10. When The Ship Comes In (2:59) [10] *
11. The Times They Are A-Changin' (3:07) [11] *
12. John Brown (3:28) [12]
13. Talkin' John Birch Paranoid Blues [Talking John Birch
Paranoid Blues] (3:13) [13]
14. I Shall Be Free (4:58) [14]
15. Hero Blues (1:36) [15]
16. Tomorrow Is A Long Time (3:44) [16]
17. Only A Hobo (2:23) [17]
18. Whatcha Gonna Do (3:26) [18]
19. Gypsy Lou (3:43) [19]
20. Baby, Let Me Follow You Down (Eric von Schmidt [?])
(1:55) [20]
21. A Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall (6:58) [21]
22. Don't Think Twice It's Alright [Don't Think Twice, It's
All Right] (3:43) [22]
Disc 2:
Total Running Time: 68:23
23. Oxford Town (2:37) [23]
24. Masters Of War (4:38) [24]
25. Walkin' Down The Line (2:44) [25]
26. The Death Of Emmett Till (4:32) [26]
27. Bob Dylan's Dream (3:57) [27]
28. Quit Your Low-Down Ways [Quit Your Lowdown Ways] (2:48)
[28]
29. Baby I'm In The Mood For You (1:36) [29]
30. Ballad Of Hollis Brown (4:09) [30]
31. Girl From The North Country [Girl Of The North Country]
(3:10) [31]
32. Boots Of Spanish Leather (5:44) [32]
33. Let Me Die In Your Footsteps [Let Me Die In My
Footsteps] (1:35) [33]
34. Bound To Lose, Bound To Win (1:20) [34]
35. I'd Hate To Be You [I'd Hate To Be You On That Dreadful
Day] (1:58) [35]
36. Percy's Song (7:36) [36]
37. Guess I'm Doing Fine [Guess I'm Doin' Fine] (4:07) [37]
38. Eternal Circle (2:56) [38]
39. Mamma You Been On My Mind [Mama You Been On My Mind]
(2:51) [G] [15] *
40. Mr. Tambourine Man (5:59) [40]
41. I'll Keep It With Mine (3:39) [F] [14]
(1-41) Witmark & Sons Demos, New York City, New York, 1962-
1964. [035] Track 39 was released on The Bootleg Series
(1991).
(39, 41) Columbia Studios, New York City, New York, 9 June
1964. [070] Another Side Of Bob Dylan (1964) outtakes.
"Through A Bullet Of Light Witmark & Son's Demo's". "Witmark
& Son's Music Publishers Demo's". "Through A Bullet Of Light
Witmark & Son's Publishing". "Through A Bullet Of Light
Witmark & Son's".
The source is said to be Michael Krogsgaard's master tape of
the acetates.
John Brown [12] has a fluffed line, "Do what... You make me
proud to know you hold a gun, Do what the captain says..."
Then Through A Bullet Of Light has a horrendous splice in
the tape of the acetate source (0:40), verses are lost...
Whatcha Gonna Do (18) and Gypsy Lou (19) are listed on the
insert as one track.
Bound To Lose, Bound To Win [34] includes an extra spoken
phrase before it is cut, "alright, this one's called Bound
To Lose..."
Percy's Song [36] and Eternal Circle [38] are not taken by
everyone to be original Witmark Demos but they are included
here.
Mama You Been On My Mind (39) is not the piano version, the
expected 39th track! It is instead the released studio
outtake used as a demo, the guitar version. The Witmark
Demos [T-312] and The Witmark Years [T-438] omit this and
have the expected piano version.
TOWNSEND NUMBER: 378
PERFORMANCE: 9
SOUND: 6
RECOMMENDATION: 0 Prefer T-438 just by a hair's breadth. Cf
T-312.
--
The Witmark Demos / Bob Dylan [1962-1964] {*} {P}
2 CDs
Spine and front insert title: The Witmark Demos
Back insert title: The Witmark Demos 1962-1964
Disc title: Zimmerman's Eary Demo [sic, not "Early"]
Off Beat Records, BD1, BD2, (XXCD 14), [1994]
[Made in Japan]
Matrix: BD1 55215X1, 80389M1 BD2
Total Running Time: 134:59 (2 1/4 hours)
Disc 1:
Total Running Time: 69:44
1. Baby I'm In The Mood For You (1:33) [29]
2. Quit Your Lowdown Ways (2:52) [28]
3. Long Time Gone (3:53) [2]
4. Long Ago, Far Away (2:30) [1]
5. Ain't Gonna Grieve (1:30) [3]
6. Seven Curses (3:17) [7]
7. Let Me Die In My Footsteps (1:39) [33]
8. Bob Dylan's Blues (2:00) [6]
9. Talkin' John Birch Paranoid Blues [Talking John Birch
Paranoid Blues] (3:22) [13]
10. The Death Of Emmett Till (4:39) [26]
11. Hero Blues (1:41) [15]
12. Only A Hobo (2:30) [17]
13. All Over You (3:57) [9]
14. Bound To Lose, Bound To Win (1:25) [34]
15. Baby, Let Me Follow You Down (Eric von Schmidt [?])
(2:01) [20]
16. A Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall (6:59) [21]
17. Don't Think Twice, It's All Right (3:44) [22]
18. Oxford Town (2:36) [23]
19. Masters Of War (4:38) [24]
20. Girl From The North Country [Girl Of The North Country]
(3:12) [31]
21. I Shall Be Free (5:01) [14]
22. Tomorrow Is A Long Time (3:52) [16]
Disc 2:
Total Running Time: 65:15
23. Boots Of Spanish Leather (5:43) [32]
24. Bob Dylan's Dream (3:58) [27]
25. Farewell [Fare Thee Well] (4:07) [5]
26. Guess I'm Doin' Fine (4:14) [37]
27. John Brown (4:22) [12]
28. Watcha Gonna Do [Whatcha Gonna Do] (3:31) [18]
29. Gypsy Lou (3:44) [19]
30. Paths of Victory (4:08) [8] *
31. Walking Down The Line [Walkin' Down The Line] (3:28)
[25]
32. Ballad Of Hollis Brown (4:13) [30]
33. I'd Hate To Be You On That Dreadful Day (2:01) [35]
34. Blowin' In The Wind (2:42) [4]
35. When The Ship Comes In (3:02) [10] *
36. The Times They Are A-Changin' (3:08) [11] *
37. Mama, You've Been On My Mind [Mama You Been On My Mind]
(2:15) [39]
38. Mr. Tambourine Man (5:58) [40]
39. I'll Keep It With Mine (3:41) [F]
(1-39) Witmark & Sons Demos, New York City, New York, 1962-
1964. [035] Tracks 30, 31, 35 and 36 were released on The
Bootleg Series (1991).
(39) Columbia Studios, New York City, New York, 9 June
1964. [070] Another Side Of Bob Dylan (1964) outtake.
(37-39) "Taken from acetate".
Tracks 1-39 Bob Dylan: vocals, tracks 1-34 Bob Dylan:
acoustic guitar, tracks 11-12, 21, 28-31 Bob Dylan:
harmonica, tracks 35-39 Bob Dylan: piano.
"The Witmark Demos were mainly recorded during 1962 and
early 1964. These are the songs of which Paul Cable -- in
his book 'Bob Dylan His unreleased recordings' -- said, 'It
is a shame that the songs on this tape have wound up
spattered across a whole load of bootlegs'". These are the
precise words at the bottom of the track listing insert
found in the vinyl boxed set: Witmark Demos (Germany, 1983).
John Brown [12] has a fluffed line, "Do what... You make me
proud to know you hold a gun, Do what the captain says..."
but no tape splice...
Percy's Song [36] and Eternal Circle [38] are taken by some
to be original Witmark Demos but are not included here. Both
can be found on The Witmark Years [T-438] and Through A
Bullet Of Light [T-378] . Percy's Song [36] can be found on
Twelve Curses [T-110].
The order of the tracks on these CDs is not based on date
order but largely follows the track order of the boxed vinyl
three LP bootleg: Witmark Demos (Germany, 1983), though it
does exclude the vinyl side five version of the guitar Mama
You Been On My Mind [G], which is among the studio outtakes
used as demos. In other words it is largely faithful to the
order of the tape which has been circulating for many, many
years.
cctr147@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Les):
"My main comment is that although the quality seems
excellent, it is actually well below the quality of low
generation copies of the non-bootleg tape!"
Sparse but effective packaging, with silver CDs starkly
printed in green. The front cover black and white photograph
is a familiar Hilton Kramer photograph. A small early black
and white harmonica-holder photograph is found on the back
insert. The inserts have a pleasing cream colour background.
The track listing is not numbered though, an unforgivable
crime on a CD!
TOWNSEND NUMBER: 312
PERFORMANCE: 9
SOUND: 5
RECOMMENDATION: 0 Prefer T-438 just by a hair's breadth. Cf
T-378.
______ .(((()
| | (_ '\)
| | __/ \()!
.-|______|. ____(|___/ |!
:__|____|__|____| : |!
:|_____________| _;_/\__|!
:| |/ ____)!
:| | \!""""!
:| _________ |\__/)____!
#|_| |_| (/! !
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Subject: Re: EDLIS - Witmark...
From: MOE
Date: 1995/06/15
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Craig/EDLIS:
A great post. Just thought I would put in my two bits since you asked
for comments. I concur that "The Witmark Years" is the preferable of the
3 packages, and yes I have heard all three. The sound is a bit brighter
on this one, not to mention a better package. Additionally, (IMO) the front
cover of the CD belongs in the bootleg cover Hall of Fame. Essential
stuff, this is. Ciao - Moe
Subject: Re: Witmarks
From: cctr147@csc.canterbury.ac.nz
Date: 1995/06/19
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
> Witmark
>
>
>EDLIS has been receiving a huge number of enquiries seeking
>advice on how to get the best version of the Witmark
>>material on CD.
>
>The official answer is get it on DAT tape, as all the CDs
>have drawbacks. But no one likes that answer.
A low generation source tape, is my personal choice. DAT masters
do not exist.
>
>So below is a rough listing of EDLIS' first unfinished
>thoughts on the three titles from which you must choose. For
>the wacky among you who just trust EDLISian advice without
>weighing the evidence the long and short of it is: Buy The
>Witmark Years [T-438].
I was a bit surprised to read this recommendation in light of
the very detailed analysis in ISIS 60. Phil devotes 5 columns
to a very thorough comparison but reaches a different conclusion.
To quote 'Which kinda leaves the question of which is the best
disk wide open. If you need the best quality recording of every
track the solution is simple enough, you need both disks. If,
however, you only want one then a compromise is unavoidable. For
90% of the time THROUGH A BULLET OF LIGHT wins on recording
quality, but trips up with the fault on John Brown and the balls
up with Mama you been on my mind, while THE WITMARK YEARS while
generally slightly inferior on recording quality at least gets
the track listing and it does have those two outstanding quality
recordings.' (When the ship comes in & The times they are a-changing)
[snip]
>The sound on The Witmark Years [T-438] is at times
>marginally brighter and clearer than the sound on Through A
>Bullet Of Light [T-378] which is marginally brighter and
>clearer than the sound on The Witmark Demos [T-312]. Not
>consistently though...
another quote: ' For the most part though THE WITMARK YEARS fell
below par, on some tracks it was blatently inferior...' - ISIS 60
So what is going on here? Phil Townsend explains in some detail
how ' the test was made by listening to the disks on headphones
plugged directly into the DAC output, bypassing even the amplifier,
so that I got as close to the sound as possible' - ISIS 60
Is it possible that Phil has 'defective' ears??
How can these results be so different?
Do EDLIS own all these CDs or have they used tapes of CDs?
Craig, can you please explain your listening setup so that that
it can be taken into account when we read your recommendations.
Les
From: Paul Traverse
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Subject: CD Rot on The Witmark Years
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 23:55:06 -0330
Message-ID: <3504B292.1E870D8D@roadrunner.nf.net>
I'm pretty sure that my copy of The Witmark Years is experiencing CD
rot. It is released by Capricorn Records and manufactured by Trident
East. Two symptoms from the alt.bootlegging FAQ are present:
(3) On playing the disc, there seems to be an inordinate amount of
"static-like" background noise. The level of noise that can be heard
rises
and falls with the the volume (ie. soft passages vs. loud passages) of
the
music on the disc (not your volume knob). The louder the actual music,
the more apparent the background noise will be. This symptom is not
apparent at the outset, but eventually creeps in and gets worse and
worse over time.
(4) Your CD player exhibits tracking problems while playing the discs.
This symptom is not apparent at the outset - or it could be due to other
factors like the CD player itself. All that is known is that the
affected
discs will exhibit this problem at some point.
Note: If your CD is suffering from 2 or more of the above symptoms,
especially (1), then your CD is probably suffering from CD rot. There
seems to be no correlation between how many times you've played a CD and
when CD rot sets in.
The disk is not discolored, but is experiencing the problems above.
Just a note to let everyone know of the possibility.
--
Paul Traverse
Memorial University Of Newfoundland
Computer Science Department
mailto:traverse@roadrunner.nf.net
http://home.thezone.net/~traverse