Subject:      Re: Great Dane CD rot is real
From:         rcj10@cus.cam.ac.uk (Craig Jamieson)
Date:         1996/05/06
Newsgroups:   rec.music.dylan

Viktor Nehring (nehrinv1@SMTPGATE.MUGU.NAVY.MIL) wrote:
:>Subject: Great Dane Cd rot
:>Live Music Review Magazine 5/96 in letters someone wrote that his Great Dane
:>bootleg Cd collection purchased  in 1990 of 5 titles which includes Bob Dyla
:>& the Rolling Thunder Revue Get Ready Tonight Bob's Staying Here With You ha
:>turned from silver to sunset brown and now cannot play because tracks do not
:>register.  The editor responded he had the above Cd and it also had rotted a
:>speculated the integrity of the plastic coating was suspect and allowed air
:>inside to contact the foil. I hope the rot story is a joke but it did not lo
:>like it. I checked a local copy and it is also a little brownish but still
:>sounds fine. Is anyone else having problems? One might consider copying this
:>Cd to tape.
:The CD rot is real.  It happened to several of my Great Dane titles and one o
:another label's titles.  The CD turns a lovely golden brown and becomes
:completely worthless.  Wait, I take that back.  It does make a good drink
:coaster.  I sent the faulty titles to Great Dane with a cover letter requesti
:replacements and included return postage.  They sent back fresh copies of the
:CDs.  For the Springsteen CD this happened to ("The Wild The Innocent and the
:Main Street Shuffle"), I even got an upgrade to the "Master's Plus" release.
:It's too late for this now as Great Dane is pushing up daisies.  The moral of
:the story?If you own "import" CDs, you owe it to yourself to make tape copies

But surely that would be an infringement of copyright law?!? 

Ummmmm, I rather thought mine were turning into gold CDs? It is
a kind of golden brown and mine still sound fine. SBM is Super
Bit Mapping not Soupy Brown Mess, yes?



Subject:      CD rot
From:         Matthew Zuckerman 
Date:         1997/09/09
Newsgroups:   rec.music.dylan

>Some of my bootlegs, including my copies of the first two volumes of The
>Genuine Basement Tapes, are deteriorating. There's a lot of cracking,
>particularly on upper-end sounds.
>
>Is this the "CD rot" people talk about?
>
>And, since my bootlegs do not appear to be covered by a manufacturer's
>warranty :) is there anything I can do to forestall or reverse the process?
>
>Also, are there any boots particularly susceptible to this phenomenon that I
>should watch out for in the future?

Fromwhat I've heard, the CD rot is (at present) limited to certain copies
of four titles:

The Genuine Basement Tapes vol 1
The Genuine Basement Tapes vol 2
You Don't Know Me
Get Ready! Tonight Bob's Staying Here With You

Not all copies of these are faulty (mine were ok when I last checked, but
they've been in storage for 5 months and who knows what's been happening in
the meantime), but many are.

The fault is supposed to have occurred in the manufacturing process, not in
the materials themselves.

Matthew

_________________________________
Matthew Zuckerman 



From: fconcept@netvigator.com (Outsider)
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Subject: Re: CD Rot...How bad is the problem?
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 03:36:26 GMT
Message-ID: <34fcc94d.12555795@news.netvigator.com>

On Mon, 02 Mar 1998 15:16:25 -0500, Charlie Board 
wrote:

>XiledClown wrote:
>> 
>> >Fortunately, I have never had a CD "rot", so I don't know what I'm
>> >talking about. This is par for my course :-) So, does a rotting CD smell
>> >funny?
>> 
>> That's a good question!  I may have missed this in the FAQ (don't think so),
>> but what exactly is CD "rot"?  What are the "symptoms" and is there any known
>> "cure"?
>
About a dozen of my nearly 1000 CDs have succumbed, but not just
bootlegs - they include the following:

Al Stewart - To Whom It May Concern - EMI double (irritatingly, only
one of the two CDs has gone bad)
Strange Weather - Marianne Faithfull - Island (on the same label, my
History of Fairport Convention is beginning to show signs of it)
Butthole Surfers - Double Live (both CDs)
Captain Beefheart - Ice Cream for Crow - Virgin

The symptoms are that the playing surface appears to become cloudy
instead of shiny, and dark patches may appear around the edges where
the plastic overlay starts to separate from the metal underneath.
First individual tracks start skipping, then the whole thing becomes
unplayable.  As far as I know, there is no cure except replacement
with a new copy.

Does anyone know if the record companies will replace affected copies?
What is their legal obligation?  With bootlegs, I guess it's just
caveat emptor.



From: "lendee" 
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Subject: Cd rot & deteration
Date: 3 Mar 1998 03:36:37 GMT
Message-ID: <01bd466d$6b511f20$35735acf@lendee.erinet.com>

While giving this some thought,Cds are made of aluminum and if moisture
hits it, it will start to pit over the years.About two years ago, I
think 20/20 took you into a illegal cd plant that were making bootlegg
cds in China. On observation of the plant, it looked like the workers
were hot and sweaty and the cds probably were moisture laden before
they were coated with shellac. Then when they were coated, the moisture
was traped.After years, the moisture started eating into the aluminum
and pitting it under the shellac.If I'm wrong,correct me.

On cd deterieration, Could only be bad shellac or a very cheap product
in place of.
Who knows what will happen in the years to come due to these conditions
of these plants.
They don't have the standards like we do in the states. Oh well enough
is said about this and just buy these cds like I do and enjoy the music
of Bob like I do and don't worry about what's gonna happen down the
road. Who knows, you may get hit by a Beer Truck.

If I'm wrong,please correct me and post your views. I can still take
flack.

Len>>lendee@erinet.com



From: kfoss@mint.net (Kevin A. Foss)
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Subject: Re: Cd rot & deteration
Date: 3 Mar 1998 23:05:23 GMT
Message-ID: <6di2bj$951$1@garnet.mint.net>

On Mon, 02 Mar 1998 21:54:14 -0800, 13th Floor  wrote:
>I doubt it.  There are any number of old laser video discs out there
>that still play just fine.  Same technology.  
>

Well I think this is a gross over-simplification.  There are many
differences between LDs and CDs, for example many of these older
discs are encoded quite differently from CDs (analog audio, etc.)
The biggest thing is that many, many LDs have rotted over the
years, but the main cause is manufacturing errors.  Luckily the
defect rate on CDs is less (at least for the major pressing
plants), so it is rare on audio CDs.

Basically an LD is two platters glued together.  Coupled with the
large size that encourages bending and warping, the chances of 1)
warping breaking the seal between the platters, 2) contaminants
in the glue or 3) improper sealing of the platters leads to
oxidation which gradually rots the LDs. I've seen estimates
indicating that 30% of the LDs made before '87 were either
defective out of the box, or gradually rotted because of problems
like these.  The older LDs you have experience with are probably
the ones that were made well and didn't rot, the others made the
junk heap years ago. 

The good news is that CD manufacturing is less prone to errors
and the discs rot less.  The bad news is that cheaply made boots
often aren't made to the same standards and unfortunately some
will rot.

-Kevin
--
Kevin A. Foss -- kfoss@mint.net


Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Subject: Re: Cd rot & deteration
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 07:23:43 -0500
Message-ID: <34FBF64F.34B819B7@usit.net>

lendee wrote:

> They don't have the standards like we do in the states. Oh well enough
>
> is said about this and just buy these cds like I do and enjoy the
> music
> of Bob like I do and don't worry about what's gonna happen down the
> road. Who knows, you may get hit by a Beer Truck.

Careful!  Your cds just might be "skin deep and will rot before your
eyes." :-)  My policy is: Best to back up (on tape, DAT, etc.) at least
the ones about which you've heard those nasty rumours.  Or perhaps you
have very solid sources for securing replacements?  Beer trucks move
quickly through my neighborhood.

-Bob Stacy