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Subject: Re: Another "Guitars Kissing ..?"
From: "Steven Mazur (SAR)"
Date: 1996/09/05
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Bob Meyer wrote:
> After Months of searching I finally received "Guitars Kissing & The
> Contemporary fix" in the mail today. Having had the electric part of
> this show on vinyl for quite a long time, I was shocked at the quality
> of the sound. Wow Stereo!!! To my surprise, it contains at the
> beginning of disc #1 a 1:08 soundcheck of "Just like Tom Thumbs blues".
> It is also on the label "DISC HITS"(no number). Label just reads "free
> trade hall" "For promotional use only". Also on back cover says "Made
> in Yugoslavia". Front and back cover in black and white. Is this a
> pirate of the "original" bootleg?
Only a few days ago I too received this same pair of discs in the mail.
It does indeed contain the 1:08 soundcheck of "Tom Thumb," but it has not
been speed corrected. I compared it to the recording on "Sings The Body
Electric" to verify that they are in fact the same recordings; they are,
except for the speed correction. Bob Meyer's description of the discs is
accurate. I will add that the label "DISC HITS" appears only on the
actual discs, not the cover. Also, the "free trade hall" and "For
promotional used only" comments are on the actual discs only. The rear
cover contains the "Made in Yugoslavia" label, and a small graphic of some
type of beetle, possibly the DISC HITS logo (?). On my copy, the matrix
numbers have actually been scratched out. I'm not sure if this is the
doing of DISC HITS or of the mail order company through which I bought the
CDs. It irks me nevertheless. Does anyone know why the manufacturer or
dealer would do this? Craig? Bob, can you tell us if your copy of these
discs are also missing the matrix numbers?
I noticed that at the 7:22 mark of "Mr. Tambourine Man," there is a *very*
brief sound dropout. It lasts for only a split second. Can someone with
the original "Guitars Kissing" confirm whether or not this is a flaw in
the source tape, or if it is only on this "new" "Guitars Kissing"?
Additionally, I compared the artwork of these discs with that of the
original (found in Joe Cliburn's Flintcreek page). The pictures on the
front and back cover are the same, but are in black and white on the new
discs (printed on a heavy, woven paper). The layout of the title on the
front cover may be different, but I cannot say for sure, as I do not have
the discs in front of me. The insert is only a single sheet; it does not
open up (thus, the insert picture is missing from the new copy). There
are no notes, only the track listing on the back cover.
My guess is that this is a pirate of the original set of discs, with the
"Tom Thumb" soundcheck added on to give us the 5/17/66 Manchester show in
its entirety.
-Steve
From: Roserut@aol.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Subject: Help Identify Please
Date: 10 May 1997 08:52:13 -0700
Recently I was just goofing off and ran into a shop and found
Guitars Kissing & The Contemporary Fix and I had read so much
great stuff on it - I listened to the first disc and bought
it. Well I remembered vaguely somewhere back there being
a list of identifying numbers. This CD boot has no numbers
anywhere except on the two disks - SCO-8 for disk 1 and
SCO-9 for disk 2. Disk 1 is black and disk 2 is white.
The only thing identifying the label is an picture of an
Scorpion on the back. No dates, no identifying numbers -
is there anything unusual about this import.
Disk 1 includes:
She Belongs To Me
Fourth Time Around
Visions of Johanna
It's All Over Now, Baby Blue
Desolation Row
Just Like A Woman
Mr. Tambourine Man
Disk 2 includes:
Tell Me Mama
I Don't Believe You (She Acts Like We Never Have Met)
Baby, Let Me Follow You Down
Just Like Tom thumb's Blues
Leopard Skin Pill-Bopx Hat
One Too Many Mornings
Ballad Of A Thin Man
Like A Rolling Stone
How does one identify this "import" without having any
numbers or anything to identify it by. Another interesting
thing is that both CD's say The Lampost Stands With folded
Arms - which I understand is an line from Gates of Eden -
why is there lyrics from a song not on this import on
the CD - wouldn't have lyrics from a song actually on
the CD should have been used.
From: whorton@worldnet.att.net (W.H. Horton, Jr.)
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Subject: Help Identify Please
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 13:53:49 GMT
Roserut@aol.com wrote:
:Recently I was just goofing off and ran into a shop and found
:Guitars Kissing & The Contemporary Fix and I had read so much
:great stuff on it - I listened to the first disc and bought
:it. Well I remembered vaguely somewhere back there being
:a list of identifying numbers. This CD boot has no numbers
:anywhere except on the two disks - SCO-8 for disk 1 and
:SCO-9 for disk 2. Disk 1 is black and disk 2 is white.
:The only thing identifying the label is an picture of an
:Scorpion on the back. No dates, no identifying numbers -
:is there anything unusual about this import.
:How does one identify this "import" without having any
:numbers or anything to identify it by. Another interesting
:thing is that both CD's say The Lampost Stands With folded
:Arms - which I understand is an line from Gates of Eden -
:why is there lyrics from a song not on this import on
:the CD - wouldn't have lyrics from a song actually on
:the CD should have been used.
The EDLIS notes for Guitars Kissing
http://www.edlis.org/twice/threads/guitars_kissing.html#edlis_notes
describe a 1996 pirate which is similar to variant you purchased:
"A 1996 2-CD jewel case pirate of the bootleg. Matrix: 601013X SCO-8
IFPI L602, 600993X SCO-9 IFPI L602. The total playing time of each
disc is within one second of the original release, but the individual
track times vary considerably. There is a fault on Desolation Row
[06:31] absent in the original release. The label of disc one has a
solid black background and is titled in white print "The Lampost
Stands with Folded Arms". The label of disc two is the inverse, that
is a white background with the black print title "The Lampost Stands
With Folded Arms". The inserts appear to be taken from the 1996
gatefold sleeve reissue which has "Bob Dylan & The Hawks" on the
cover and the picture of Bob Dylan in a checked suit with Danko in the
background on the cover (which was on the left side of the inside
gatefold of the original release). The front insert when opened is
similar (but of noticeably lower Dylan in a checked suit with Danko in
the background on the cover (which was on the left side of the inside
gatefold of the original release). The front insert when opened is
similar (but of noticeably lower quality) to the inside of the 1996
reissued gatefold (when spread open it is in black and white and has a
picture of a pair of Manchester tickets on the left hand side and the
concert review from the original on the right). A 1996 2-CD pirate of
the bootleg in a cardboard gatefold sleeve cover with two cardboard
sleeves holding the CDs. Matrix: 601013X SCO-8 IFPI L602, 600993X
SCO-9 IFPI L602."
Please send any further details regarding this variant to
matrix@edlis.org
--Larry
EDLIS Things Twice agent
http://www.edlis.org/twice/
From: Ed Ricardo
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Subject: Guitars Kissing Question
Date: 21 Jun 1997 05:46:30 -0700
In article <19970620202101.QAA11798@ladder01.news.aol.com>
eighte1@aol.com (EightE1) wrote:
: What is considered the "best" version of "Guitars Kissing & the
: Contemporary Fix?" A local record store has a copy with an imprint from
: New Zealand; it's in one of those big 2-disc jewel boxes, with B&W cover
: art. I found another copy in a different store in a more "contemporary"
: single-disc-sized 2-disc jewel box, with full-color artwork (sorry, I did
: not get the name/location of the imprint).
: Since there are doubtless many versions of this title out there, I'm just
: concerned I might get an inferior copy and make an expensive mistake.
: Rob
Guitars Kissing & The Contemporary Fix (51766A, 51766E, 1995,
GZ GB 1633 SIAE: 51766A, GZ GB 1632 SIAE: 51766E) is the original if
you like originals.
There are many versions. Never heard of one which disappointed anyone,
all buyers seem happy.
Many are of course pirates of the original boot! You may have ethical
views on that. Complex area with many opinions...
No one has reported a New Zealand imprint! Full details in e-mail
please. You might want to purchase that one for its oddity value.
New Zealand is not the world's centre for the production of boot
CDs. Maybe it is to become that though?
(The words on a CD do not necessarily relate to reality of course.
But they do help identify it.)
http://www.edlis.org/twice/threads/guitars_kissing.html#edlis_notes
is where most buyers look when considering versions of Dylan's best
album. If you see any error or omission there, e-mail immediately.
All serious buyers of Dylan albums keep in touch with
bdbdb@edlis.org
but you probably already do that.
Returning to your question, it is very much a matter of taste
which is best, but many choose the variant with the extra track:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
A 1996 version on the label "Disc Hits", "Made in Yugoslavia",
"Free Trade Hall", "For promotional use only". "1996 DPP". Beetle
logo. Front and back cover in black and white on a heavy woven
single sheet paper. There are no notes, only the track listing on
the back cover. At the beginning of disc 1 is the sound check
Just Like Tom Thumb's Blues (1:08)! Cf T-041 (with this same
track, but "speed corrected"). So the CD is 50:17. The matrix
numbers have been scraped off and are rough to touch.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
It is best to buy any version you see and sort them out later. They
make great gifts for anti-bootleg people or people just discovering
Bob Dylan. And all versions are very very tradeable. Anyone sensible
buys it when they see it. Again and again...
And whenever you see a CD in a shop, note the matrix number, that
helps a lot in commenting on a unique pressing.
Of course now many are buying the enhanced CD version, a disc format
also known as "CD Plus", "CD Extra" or "CD+" which allows the inclusion of
multimedia tracks in addition to standard audio to today's music CD's.
This exciting new format can be played on an audio CD player for music
only, or in most Windows CD-ROM drives. Stereo owners need not worry
about compatibility problems; Enhanced CD's play on regular CD players,
unveiling the extra multimedia features only when put into a PC's CD-ROM
drive. When played in a PC they include really cool stuff like video,
Liner Notes, slideshows, band biographies, Lyrics that highlight as the
song plays and much more. This is the wave of the future in music!
(How's that for advertisement-speak??? Multingual me! [Or do the
cut and paste marks show?])
http://www.spyr.com/klose/ecdinfo.html
Ed
ed@edlis.org
--
Nowadays folk's brains're bamboozled an bowled over by categories
labels an slogans an advertisements that could send anybody's
head in a spin
It's hard t believe anybody's tellin the truth for what that is
I swear it's true that in some parts a the country folks believe the
finger-pointers more'n the President
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 17:43:23 -0700
From: Peter Gilmer
Subject: Re: Guitars Kissing Question
Rob wrote:
> > I'm kinda new to the group, so if this has been asked before, please
> > forgive.
> >
> > What is considered the "best" version of "Guitars Kissing & the
> > Contemporary Fix?" A local record store has a copy with an imprint from
> > New Zealand; it's in one of those big 2-disc jewel boxes, with B&W cover
> > art. I found another copy in a different store in a more "contemporary"
> > single-disc-sized 2-disc jewel box, with full-color artwork (sorry, I did
> > not get the name/location of the imprint).
> >
> > Since there are doubtless many versions of this title out there, I'm just
> > concerned I might get an inferior copy and make an expensive mistake.
> >
> > Any help is appreciated. Many thanks.
Chad Morelli wrote:
> i bought the b&w version for $30 and the quality is good, but it was in
> single disc sized box. i was really pleased with it. i can't speak for
> the other one, but the my B&W artwork copy is great.
I may be wrong, but this is how I understand it. All copies of Guitars
Kissing are essentially clones of each other. Apart from the first
Japanese version, all others are pirated copies of the original. When a
copy is made of a digital recording, there is no generational loss at
all, unlike analogue recordings. Thus, all versions of Guitars Kissing
will sound exactly the same.
The only difference is that some versions have the incomplete rehearsal
version of Just Like Tom Thumb's Blues added to them. Since this version
is available elsewhere, it is not necessary. And in my opinion, actually
detracts from the disc which should be just the concert.
It all comes down to what packaging one prefers. For myself, I would
rather have got the original gate-fold cover, but it is an amazing disc
whatever version you get.
Peter Gilmer
,-_|\
/ AUS \
\_,-._/<--Sydney
v
peter.gilmer@pobox.com
From: ferv0r@hotmail.com (Exiled on Main Street)
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Subject: Re: Gtr's Kissing and the Contemporary Fix
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 18:54:42 GMT
In article <628h9t$aje$1@news.fsu.edu>, dave@nws.fsu.edu (David Faciane) wrote:
>In article <627j04$joh$1@newbabylon.rs.itd.umich.edu>,
>w evans wrote:
>>
>>I've seen this CD on more than one record label, can anyone tell
>>me which one sounds better? And hows the sound, anyways?
>>
>
>AFAIK "Guitars Kissing.." it is only on the Scorpio label. Any others are
>bound to be digital copies of the original, i.e, little sonic difference.
>The sound is excellent BTW.
>
>
I A-B compared my copy of Guitars (a later version) with his original version
and I couldn't tell much of a difference. The only real difference both of us
could discern is a very short gap (maybe a second) in Desolation row. Other
than that, there is no real discernable difference IMO.
-Tim
From: "TurnItUp!"
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Subject: Re: Gtr's Kissing and the Contemporary Fix
Date: 18 Oct 1997 20:35:58 GMT
> >>
> >>I've seen this CD on more than one record label, can anyone tell
> >>me which one sounds better? And hows the sound, anyways?
> >>
There is also the addition of Tom Thumb soundcheck on some of the later
ones. Mine is Scorpio in cardboard gatefold and doesn't have it.
Soundwise, little difference.
From: dave@nws.fsu.edu (David Faciane)
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Subject: Re: Guitar Kissing?
Date: 12 Nov 1997 19:11:28 GMT
[posted and mailed to author]
In article ,
wdevil@aa.net wrote:
>"Jonathan W. Wolf" wrote:
>
>> what is this boot? is it going to be an offical realease, can somebody
>> explain it to me? Jonathan W. Wolf
>
>It is a beautiful (2 disc) recording of the May 17, 1966 show at the Free
>Trade Hall show in Manchester, England. One edition has a soundcheck on it
>which runs about 5 minutes and I have compared this to the edition without
>the soundcheck. The edition without the soundcheck has better audio
>overall.
What's the matrix number of the version with soundcheck? Haven't seen
this around at all.
Thanks,
Dave
--
David Faciane |web: http://www.nws.fsu.edu/~dave
NOAA National Weather Service |Real-Time Worldwide Marine Weather Reports
Tallahassee, FL | http://www.nws.fsu.edu/buoy
From: blackbox@erfurt.thur.de (Schwarz)
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Subject: Re: Bootlegger & Taper
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 00:02:30 GMT
On Sun, 21 Dec 1997 23:15:53 +0900, Masato Kato
wrote:
> It seems that a lot of people regard "Guitars Kissing & The
> Contemporary Fix" as one of the greatest bootleg albums, but
> I dare say this is yet another TRASH. Does your copy have
> a dropout during 'Mr. Tambourine Man'? My copy has. I am sure
> all the copies have this flaw. If you like the flaw, you have
> every reason to call this album excellent. The tape copies
> from the CDs are also trash. They are the last thing that I
> want.
My copy of GK&TCF has that drop out too, but I like that show though.
The drop out annoys me too. I understand what you mean,
but since I don't know many *kind tapers*
so I have to take what I find anyhow otherwise.
I mostly I can't resist if someone holds such CDs beyond my nose.
I recently bought under a kind of *snake/rabbit effect* a set
called "Hear The Document", which hasn't that drop out.
- ev
"If I'd lived my life by what others were thinkin',
the heart inside me would've died."
(Bob Dylan "Up To Me")
From: alan.fraser@mcmail.com (Alan Fraser)
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Subject: Re: Guitars Kissing..
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 09:22:17 GMT
On 27 Jan 1998 23:38:22 GMT, hw61@aol.com (HW61) wrote:
>Any truth to the rumor that Sony/Columbia is putting out Guitars Kissing and
>the Contemporary Fix officially?
>
>Thanx
>Patrick
>
Last year it was reported this was possibly scheduled for late 1998.
I've since heard that Bob doesn't like the idea because he thinks the
sound is "too clean", and doesn't reproduce the experience of those
who were at the concert. So it may never appear officially - unless he
gets the engineers to grunge it up :-).
Hang on to that GK&TCF! BTW, the Hear The Document clone does _not_
have the dropout in the harmonica solo in Mr Tambourine Man. And it
hasn't been edited out, either, so HTD must come from a different DAT
source from GK&TCF. (DAT trader Masato Kato recently reported his copy
doesn't have the dropout.)
Alan
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 01:59:52 +0000
From: Nicole Walter
Subject: Re: "Guitars Kissing" Reissue Question
On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:19:21 GMT, Alan Fraser
wrote:
>...I was going to direct you to
>http://www.edlis.org/twice/threads/guitars_kissing.html
>where all the information you require about the different versions of
>this set can be found, but other interested readers may be glad of
>this information and go there for it.
Thanks for the helpful posting: it went a long distance toward
identifying a variant of "Guitars Kissing" with which I am familiar, but
perhaps someone could clarify the rest.
This version closely resembles the pirated reissue mentioned on the
EDLIS page: a nested 2-CD set with inverted black-and-white CD designs,
each bearing the quote "THE LAMPOST STANDS WITH FOLDED ARMS," and with a
flaw in "Desolation Row."
On the cover there is the standard checked-suit image, and on the back
the set list and close up photo + Scorpio emblem lower right. The
interior design seems different, however, than that described in
reference to the pirated version: here the inside sleeve has a collage
that includes three photos taken -- I am guessing -- from the European
press conference at which Dylan introduces a doll as his companion.
That's it for artwork or text. Discs numbered SCO-8 and SCO-9.
I am a rank amateur at such matters, and it could well be that I am
missing something very obvious. Have pity on the curious, though; any
information would be much appreciated.
Stephen D. Walter
-----
"And I'm still carrying the gift you gave,
It's a part of me now, it's been cherished and saved"
From: KYYP25A@prodigy.com (Alan Friedman)
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Subject: Re: "Guitars Kissing" Reissue Question
Date: 14 Feb 1998 17:13:26 GMT
Message-ID: <6c4jbm$4t9i$2@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>
This is all getting quite fascinating, as there are obviously numerous
editions of "Guitars Kissing" floating about.
To answer Alan Fraser's earlier post and questions, my copy (with serial
numbers SIAE 51766A and SIAE 51766E) has "BOB DYLAN" in large red type on
the front cover, with "Guitars Kissing & the Contemporary Fix" below that
in smaller white type. The picture of Bob shows him with acoustic guitar
in the checked suit and pants outfit and he is pointing with his right
hand.
The back cover lists the songs in small white type and the pix of Bob
shows him blowing on harmonica.
Spine of CD says "Bob Dylan & the Hawks" in white and "Guitars Kissing &
the Contemporary Fix" in red.
Inside, there are four head shots of Bob, one of which looks to me like a
Daniel Kramer photo, and three others which appear to be from a press
conference. In one of these, the head of some kind of doll can be seen.
What's the deal with this doll?
This edition does not include the soundcheck (presumably of "Just Like
Tom Thumb's Blues," which I believe also appears on "Sings the Body
Electric") and does indeed have a dropout during the harmonica solo
during "Mr. Tambourine Man."
Alan
From: Joe Cliburn
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Subject: Re: "Guitars Kissing" Reissue Question
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 17:38:16 -0600
Message-ID: <34E62AE7.522F@datasync.com>
According to an exhaustive poll of GK&TCF owners who've registered with
the EDLIS Who Has Which Boot agency, the 51766A/E matrix number is
considered to be the original Scorpio release. The 1st to be sighted
were marketed in cardboard sleeves; the same matrix # in a
slimline-double jewel case followed several months later. The Scorpio
re-issue SCO 8/9 came out almost a year later in slimline-double case.
In the meantime, an alternate content version including the soundcheck
(Tom Thumb's Blues) appeared. This one is on the Disc Hits label & bears
the inscription "made in Yugoslavia". The matrix numbers on this one are
scratched out.
Here are the Bob Dylan Bootleg Database (BDBDB) records:
Guitars Kissing & The Contemporary Fix / Bob Dylan
[17 May 66] Scorpio 51766A/E (orig) & SCO-8/9 (re) 2CD [T-024a] {Q}
Guitars Kissing & The Contemporary Fix (soundcheck version) / Bob Dylan
[17 May 66] DPP - Disc Hits 2CD [T-024b] {Q}
My guess is that there are probably some 51766A/E reissues floating
around along with the SCO-8/9s & the Yugos. Boxes sit in warehouses, CDs
may stay unnoticed in a store, on & on...
The EDLIS Who Has Which Boot agency is a simple referral service: Folks
who own vinyl & CD boots list 'em in the Bob Dylan Database (BDBDB) &
volunteer to provide assistance. When folks have questions about
specific boots, they can be directed to a known owner who (presumably)
would have the answers. Details are in the agency mini-FAQ
http://www.edlis.org/bdbdb/bdbdbfaq.htm or via email to
--
Joe Cliburn
"Obviously, I'm not an IBM computer any more than I'm an ashtray."
- Dylan
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Message-ID: <86dea2ce.34e6ef7b@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 08:36:57 EST
From: Lovinmj23@aol.com
Subject: Guitars Kissing.......yet another
Alan Friedman wrote:
Subject: Re: "Guitars Kissing" Reissue Question
>This is all getting quite fascinating, as there are obviously numerous
>editions of "Guitars Kissing" floating about.
>To answer Alan Fraser's earlier post and questions, my copy (with serial
>numbers SIAE 51766A and SIAE 51766E) has "BOB DYLAN" in large red type on
>the front cover, with "Guitars Kissing & the Contemporary Fix" below that
>in smaller white type. The picture of Bob shows him with acoustic guitar
>in the checked suit and pants outfit and he is pointing with his right
>hand.
The "latest" front cover has the picture that was originally inside the
booklet, with Dylan in the checked suit w/electric guitar, holding his right
hand in the air while standing at the microphone. The lettering is all red
at the bottom (on either side of his legs). The inner left side of the
booklet
now shows an ad for the show and what appears to be a ticket, while the
right side has the original "notes" in black. The back booklet pic remains
the
same (Bob blowing on the harp. The back cover is as you describe below...
>The back cover lists the songs in small white type and the pix of Bob
>shows him blowing on harmonica ......
and also playing guitar. This pic was not included in the original issue.
>Spine of CD says "Bob Dylan & the Hawks" in white and "Guitars Kissing &
the Contemporary Fix" in red.
Ditto for the one I describe above w/the "new" cover. The original issue
came housed in a gatefold jacket w/individual sleeves for the disks, each
with pictures. These are not included in the "recent" re-issues.
Most importantly, the sound remains unchanged on all - fantastic.
Moe